An Indian Civilizational Perspective

The Crowd called Third Front

Third Front has come together with the likes of Dewe Gowda, Mayawati, Communists and Chandrababu Naidu sharing bed with each other. The regional satraps have joined hands with the Communists with the hope that they will get their chance of lifetime to become the PM of India.

If in modern times there was a Jaichand in India – then IK Gujral may well stake a claim for the top candidate of that genre of traitors.

Mayawati, unashamed fool as she is, has even gone ahead and staked the claim to be the PM candidate from the Third Front. We have seen THREE thoroughly undeserving and shameless people become Prime Ministers from this bunch of people – VP Singh (Dec 1989 – Nov 1990), Dewe Gowda (1996-97), and IK Gujral (21 April 1997 – 28 November 1997). The first two were certified goons, but the third guy was supposed to be an intellectual – but even he couldn’t get away from this lure and staked a claim to mess the country up at that time and finally made one decision for which India may well rue for years and decades to come![1]

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It has come out in Indian news that I K Gujral during his tenure as PM, as part of his doctrine, wound up the Research and Analysis Wing’s – India’s external intelligence agency – covert operations in Pakistan. Acting in the belief of earning ‘goodwill’ of Pakistan, gave details of R&AW assets in Pakistan. It has been alleged that this led to physical elimination of R&AW human assets through extra-judicial means by Pakistan’s intelligence agencies. This has been severevly critized in the light of the November 2008 Mumbai attacks and signifies the final futility of his doctrine – belief in the ‘inherent goodwill’ of openly hostile neighbors. This is his defining legacy.

The first one – VP Singh, became the PM with the backing of BJP and the last two through the backing of Congress.

There is no denying that LK Advani is not at his top game and the entire BJP clan is in a big mess. The stage is set now for a person like Narendra Modi to emerge as the defacto leader within the configuration of that party. But that will lead to a lot of upheaval in it. It may break up in different bits.

On the other hand, Congress seems to be moving towards Gandhi clan wholeheartedly. Rahul Gandhi may well be India’s PM in the short term… sadly for India. I don’t like Congress Party in general – but at this time, I feel that Congress seems to be the best choice for the country. Without the compulsion of Leftists, if.. and a BIG if.. Dr. Singh comes back as the PM, with major portfolios to Chidambaram, then we may have a good Government on our hand. But I doubt that may be a possibility.

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It will be a hung parliament, as I had suggested in my 2009 Predictions, and I believe that there will be a mid term election again within 6 months to an year.

Current indications do say that Communists may actually end up losing many seats in West Bengal and Kerala as well (20-25). If that were so then the Third Front really is a Spent Front. They basically are preparing to play party poopers… to throw the monkey wrench in the formation of the Government and claim the stake. I hope that can be avoided!

Reference Links:

1. IK Gujral

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16 Comments
  1. Anonymous says

    In the tradition of Slumdog Millionaire, let’s play a Single-Question game, to define India’s destiny.

    Q. Whom would you prefer to see running the affairs of the Largest Democracy in the World?

    A. A Corrupt and Opportunistic Congress
    B. A “tending-to-Taliban” BJP
    C. A terribly unappetizing hodgepodge called Third Front
    D. An Unstable Alliance of A or B with C

    Really, thats the choice India has in the coming elections. Congress is a known evil – dynastic, corrupt, opportunistic, perhaps even incompetent but it’s competition is much worse and therefore I agree with Desh that it is the “best available” choice India has. I hope they get a clear majority, so that they do not have to depend on the likes of Amar Singh, Laloo, Mayawati etc. to stay in power.

    While the Third Front isn’t even worth discussing, BJP has been terribly disappointing as well, and on several counts.

    One, they have demonstrated over the past few years that they can be equally opportunistic (alliances with Mayawati, Jayalalitha etc) and their choice of political bedmates is ALWAYS horribly wrong. Add to that the fact that they are totally inept in managing alliances – something that the Congress can do very well, or at least much better.

    Two, they have displayed amply that their so-called “dedicated cadre” is not clean itself and is full of people I wish were thrown into a well and forgotten – Shekhawat, Uma Bharti, Murli Manohar Joshi, Kalyan Singh, Togadia, Muthalik, Thackeray, Rajnath Singh, Bangaru Laxman – all top-class @holes who are or have been in BJP’s (and their close allies’) leadership positions PLUS they seem to attract @holes among their rank and file too – amply displayed by their “workers” in Karnataka in the VDay episode; and more recently the “Christian” Charlie Chaplin controversy.

    Three, while they have some promising leaders…Modi, Swaraj, Jaitley… it appears that such leaders are not allowed to grow within the party unless they follow the Hindutva crap. While Modi is currently their “Star”, and has done some amazing work in Gujarat, he’s smart enough to know that if he derives his political strength from “extreme right” bullshit, he will toe the line as he displayed during the riots in Gujarat. Modi is the perfect example of why even a “more competent” BJP should not be allowed to come to power on a “Hindutva” vote. They will turn India into Afghanistan, or worse. Unless they learn the lesson that this kind of fascism will not be tolerated in modern day India, they MUST be forced to sit in the opposition.

    Finally, while this is purely wishful thinking, I hope the best of Congress can, one day, join with the best among the BJP/NDA cadre to kick out the rest. Imagine a cabinet headed by a youthful (though inexperienced) prospect such as Rahul Gandhi and supported by the experience of Modi, Chidambram, Manmohan, Swaraj, Shiela Dixit, Jaitley, Nitish; and without having to depend on the Left or the likes of Jayalalitha, Mulayam, Mayawati, Laloo, Patnaik, Paswan etc.

    That would be my Dream Team.

  2. Desh says

    Very interesting comments! Some random comments:

    1. I really do not understand the criticism that Murli Manohar got for education reform. A lot of our NCERT syllabus was indeed written badly… with a lot of quirks and needed to be revisited. So that I totally agree with. His suggestion that there could a course in astrology is also not a bad idea.. there are many Universities in UK, which offer a combination of Psychology and Astrology as a course. And I believe that astrology if understood properly is a useful indicator – just as economics as an “indicative subject” is. His problem was he went overboard and did not distinguish between the totally “way-out” and the not so way out.

    2. Your objections of Modi and his “motives” iin Gujarat riots would have seemed credible – if you had held Congress leadership in 1984 (Rajiv Gandhi et al) on the same pedestal. ~ 3000 Sikhs died in Delhi. One City! In Gujarat ~800 Muslims/250 Hindus died. There is no comparison. So, if you are rooting for Rahul Gandhi and not Modi, then I think its your hypocrisy.

    3. Rahul Gandhi may look “youthful” and “Handsome” but I am personally DONE with the Gandhi clan. India can and SHOULD survive without their mess!

    4. How I wish a youthful Vajpayee was available – someone who could stitch people together and also raise them through his brilliant oratory (Obama-like). But that is not there. I would personally like to see Modi either as the PM or as the Home Minister. India is going to see a VERY serious crisis from terrorism in the coming months given the turmoil in Pakistan. What has happened hitherto will look like a walk in the park. And in my estimation, no one apart from Modi can reliably handle that challenge.

  3. Anonymous says

    In the tradition of Slumdog Millionaire, let’s play a Single-Question game, to define India’s destiny.

    Q. Whom would you prefer to see running the affairs of the Largest Democracy in the World?

    A. A Corrupt and Opportunistic Congress
    B. A “tending-to-Taliban” BJP
    C. A terribly unappetizing hodgepodge called Third Front
    D. An Unstable Alliance of A or B with C

    Really, thats the choice India has in the coming elections. Congress is a known evil – dynastic, corrupt, opportunistic, perhaps even incompetent but it’s competition is much worse and therefore I agree with Desh that it is the “best available” choice India has. I hope they get a clear majority, so that they do not have to depend on the likes of Amar Singh, Laloo, Mayawati etc. to stay in power.

    While the Third Front isn’t even worth discussing, BJP has been terribly disappointing as well, and on several counts.

    One, they have demonstrated over the past few years that they can be equally opportunistic (alliances with Mayawati, Jayalalitha etc) and their choice of political bedmates is ALWAYS horribly wrong. Add to that the fact that they are totally inept in managing alliances – something that the Congress can do very well, or at least much better.

    Two, they have displayed amply that their so-called “dedicated cadre” is not clean itself and is full of people I wish were thrown into a well and forgotten – Shekhawat, Uma Bharti, Murli Manohar Joshi, Kalyan Singh, Togadia, Muthalik, Thackeray, Rajnath Singh, Bangaru Laxman – all top-class @holes who are or have been in BJP’s (and their close allies’) leadership positions PLUS they seem to attract @holes among their rank and file too – amply displayed by their “workers” in Karnataka in the VDay episode; and more recently the “Christian” Charlie Chaplin controversy.

    Three, while they have some promising leaders…Modi, Swaraj, Jaitley… it appears that such leaders are not allowed to grow within the party unless they follow the Hindutva crap. While Modi is currently their “Star”, and has done some amazing work in Gujarat, he’s smart enough to know that if he derives his political strength from “extreme right” bullshit, he will toe the line as he displayed during the riots in Gujarat. Modi is the perfect example of why even a “more competent” BJP should not be allowed to come to power on a “Hindutva” vote. They will turn India into Afghanistan, or worse. Unless they learn the lesson that this kind of fascism will not be tolerated in modern day India, they MUST be forced to sit in the opposition.

    Finally, while this is purely wishful thinking, I hope the best of Congress can, one day, join with the best among the BJP/NDA cadre to kick out the rest. Imagine a cabinet headed by a youthful (though inexperienced) prospect such as Rahul Gandhi and supported by the experience of Modi, Chidambram, Manmohan, Swaraj, Shiela Dixit, Jaitley, Nitish; and without having to depend on the Left or the likes of Jayalalitha, Mulayam, Mayawati, Laloo, Patnaik, Paswan etc.

    That would be my Dream Team.

  4. Desh says

    Very interesting comments! Some random comments:

    1. I really do not understand the criticism that Murli Manohar got for education reform. A lot of our NCERT syllabus was indeed written badly… with a lot of quirks and needed to be revisited. So that I totally agree with. His suggestion that there could a course in astrology is also not a bad idea.. there are many Universities in UK, which offer a combination of Psychology and Astrology as a course. And I believe that astrology if understood properly is a useful indicator – just as economics as an “indicative subject” is. His problem was he went overboard and did not distinguish between the totally “way-out” and the not so way out.

    2. Your objections of Modi and his “motives” iin Gujarat riots would have seemed credible – if you had held Congress leadership in 1984 (Rajiv Gandhi et al) on the same pedestal. ~ 3000 Sikhs died in Delhi. One City! In Gujarat ~800 Muslims/250 Hindus died. There is no comparison. So, if you are rooting for Rahul Gandhi and not Modi, then I think its your hypocrisy.

    3. Rahul Gandhi may look “youthful” and “Handsome” but I am personally DONE with the Gandhi clan. India can and SHOULD survive without their mess!

    4. How I wish a youthful Vajpayee was available – someone who could stitch people together and also raise them through his brilliant oratory (Obama-like). But that is not there. I would personally like to see Modi either as the PM or as the Home Minister. India is going to see a VERY serious crisis from terrorism in the coming months given the turmoil in Pakistan. What has happened hitherto will look like a walk in the park. And in my estimation, no one apart from Modi can reliably handle that challenge.

  5. Anonymous says

    1. Murli screwed up big time when he started messing with the IIMs – and, for me, that was his biggest blunder. I wouldn’t want to ever see him in any position of authority again.

    2. There’s no denying the fact that what Bhagat, Tytler et al. did was much worse than Modi in Gujarat. I know this well because I was in Delhi in 1984 and in Gujarat in 2002. However, that does not absolve Modi of the blame. Should we start rating our politicians on how many (or how few) innocent men and women (hindus, muslims or sikhs) they were involved in killing? Anyway, I would maintain that as long as the BJP feels pressurized to latch on to senseless fundamentalism, they should be kept away from power.

    3. On Rahul…well, does his last name make him certainly incompetent? Isn’t this hypocrisy? I’m not a big fan of the Gandhi parivar, maybe Rahul will turn out to be totally useless… and NO, I’m not “rooting” specifically for him as the next PM (read my post again, I said “youthful (though inexperienced) prospect such as Rahul Gandhi” emphasis: “prospect” and “such as”). YET, I wouldn’t dismiss him merely because he’s Gandhi and his mother is Italian and his father was naive and messed up the clearest mandate India ever gave to one individual… what was it, 412 seats?

    4. Despite all his good work (believe it or not, I’m a Modi fan) I would be very wary of Modi’s power growing too much, too soon. He’s well known to be very autocratic (some of the best people are, not particularly surprising). If he thinks the “Riot-Modi” image is the reason for his popularity and growth and not the “Development-Modi”; Taliban and cross-border terrorism will look like a “walk in the park” and the common man will face a bigger terror from him.

  6. Anonymous says

    1. Murli screwed up big time when he started messing with the IIMs – and, for me, that was his biggest blunder. I wouldn’t want to ever see him in any position of authority again.

    2. There’s no denying the fact that what Bhagat, Tytler et al. did was much worse than Modi in Gujarat. I know this well because I was in Delhi in 1984 and in Gujarat in 2002. However, that does not absolve Modi of the blame. Should we start rating our politicians on how many (or how few) innocent men and women (hindus, muslims or sikhs) they were involved in killing? Anyway, I would maintain that as long as the BJP feels pressurized to latch on to senseless fundamentalism, they should be kept away from power.

    3. On Rahul…well, does his last name make him certainly incompetent? Isn’t this hypocrisy? I’m not a big fan of the Gandhi parivar, maybe Rahul will turn out to be totally useless… and NO, I’m not “rooting” specifically for him as the next PM (read my post again, I said “youthful (though inexperienced) prospect such as Rahul Gandhi” emphasis: “prospect” and “such as”). YET, I wouldn’t dismiss him merely because he’s Gandhi and his mother is Italian and his father was naive and messed up the clearest mandate India ever gave to one individual… what was it, 412 seats?

    4. Despite all his good work (believe it or not, I’m a Modi fan) I would be very wary of Modi’s power growing too much, too soon. He’s well known to be very autocratic (some of the best people are, not particularly surprising). If he thinks the “Riot-Modi” image is the reason for his popularity and growth and not the “Development-Modi”; Taliban and cross-border terrorism will look like a “walk in the park” and the common man will face a bigger terror from him.

  7. Desh says

    1. Well in that case – the mess that Arjun Singh and Dr. Singh have actually been able to wreak on the IITs and the IIMs is breath-taking! So many IITs have been dipping into R&D funds to pay their salaries.. while new ones have been started.. the dilution of this brand has seen the worst ever.

    2 & 3. Well, its not about “rating” but its about how we absolve one and not the other. Remember Rajiv Gandhi’s “Jab bada ped girta hai” justification for the Sikh killings? Remember how he messed up the LTTE thing? The problem with inexperience and people who have zero understanding of running a polity is that they often commit the country to areas and things and create issues that generations pay for! And it is not just about the age or parents… It is about practical know-how.

    4. I know everyone had their own views.. but I personally saw violence in GUjarat and Modi’s admn role as the sign of times. They did what had been done for all these years by EVERY GOVERNMENT in India.. starting with Rajiv Gandhi’s when they went and singled out each and every Sikh to kill them. His violence was a product of the system in my view. So, suppressing Modi and saying “well, there you go.. now we are “Taliban free””.. is a little incredible in my eyes.

  8. Desh says

    1. Well in that case – the mess that Arjun Singh and Dr. Singh have actually been able to wreak on the IITs and the IIMs is breath-taking! So many IITs have been dipping into R&D funds to pay their salaries.. while new ones have been started.. the dilution of this brand has seen the worst ever.

    2 & 3. Well, its not about “rating” but its about how we absolve one and not the other. Remember Rajiv Gandhi’s “Jab bada ped girta hai” justification for the Sikh killings? Remember how he messed up the LTTE thing? The problem with inexperience and people who have zero understanding of running a polity is that they often commit the country to areas and things and create issues that generations pay for! And it is not just about the age or parents… It is about practical know-how.

    4. I know everyone had their own views.. but I personally saw violence in GUjarat and Modi’s admn role as the sign of times. They did what had been done for all these years by EVERY GOVERNMENT in India.. starting with Rajiv Gandhi’s when they went and singled out each and every Sikh to kill them. His violence was a product of the system in my view. So, suppressing Modi and saying “well, there you go.. now we are “Taliban free””.. is a little incredible in my eyes.

  9. Anonymous says

    1. Agreed, Arjun Singh is equally bad; but I still don’t want Joshi back, he’s still an @hole.

    2. I agree Rajiv was naive and inexperienced so, like I said, he screwed up big time. He had an amazing opportunity to consolidate his position and to strengthen Congress; but being naive, he just said and did what the Old Indira Cootorie told him – the Bhagats, the Tytlers – and paid for it with his life. Still, no reason to believe his son can’t do better… but yes, that’s just a matter of opinion.

    3. I can’t believe you’re actually trying to justify what Modi and his goons did in Gujarat. Are you serious?? The next CM or PM might come to your doorstep, kill your entire family and argue it’s not his/her fault, it’s just a “product of the system” so please don’t mind. How would you like that? LOL Incredible.

    Sure, getting rid of Modi doesn’t change the system but I don’t see how making him more powerful that he already is will help!! Maybe one day Modi will have a role in National politics, and maybe he will turn out to be a good leader. My point is simply this: it MUST be drilled into his head (and he is a smart ass, so I think he can understand) that he cannot escape responsibility for the 2002 “murders” and that such behavior is ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY unacceptable.

    He can be the greatest politician or chief minister or whatever, but if he sticks to his stupid Hindu Fundamentalist mantra, he has no place in Gujarat, in Delhi, in India and on this planet. If he wants a bigger role in Indian politics, he must apologize for his mistakes and seek a fresh mandate, not based on a crazy muslim-hating hindutva wave but on the basis of the work he’s doing in Gujarat.

  10. Desh says

    3. When I say that Modi was the product of the system… I am asking a fundamental question – Who is NOT a “Modi”?

    Are we singling him out because a “Hindu” killed a “Muslim”?

    Because I don’t see you asking us to “drill” into the head of COngress that a 1984 is NOT acceptable! For even this very government had Tytler as a Union Minister until he was charged by the commission (which obviously went nowhere!).

    Nandigram happened. Recently. Dalits and Muslims were ALSO singled out there. Does anyone say that Budhhadeb and Communists SHOULD be forced out of National politics? or that we should DRILL into their heads that Nandigram is NOT acceptable?

    The answer is NO.

    Sir, I am asking a fundamental question here – when does a killing become “ACCEPTABLE” and when is it NOT acceptable?

    – When a atheistic politician kills a Minority (Sikh)?
    – When a Muslim kills a Hindu (Godhra) [which Teesta so unashamedly justified to BBC by saying “After all they were Kar Sevaks”]?
    – When a Hindu kills a Muslims (post Godhra riots)?
    – When a Communist kills a Muslim (Nandigram)?

    In WHOSE mind should we “drill” and why?

    It is my argument now that there is no such thing as communinalism or secularism ON THE GROUND. On the ground and in practical terms.. both are the same. ABSOLUTELY SAME. No difference. Any difference is in rhetoric! And I TOTALLY, ABSOLUTELY, UNEQUIVOCALLY reject rhetorical Secularism and Communalism.

    I am saying EVERYONE in the Indian politics is a “Modi”! When Dr. Singh accepted Tytler as his Union Minister… he was a “Modi”. When Prakash Karat tried to hide Nandigram massacres.. he was a “Modi”… When the press and we all accept Nandigram “grudgingly” but want a special treatment for Gujarat post Godhra.. we are “Modis”!

    Which Modi do we make an example of?

  11. Anonymous says

    1. Agreed, Arjun Singh is equally bad; but I still don’t want Joshi back, he’s still an @hole.

    2. I agree Rajiv was naive and inexperienced so, like I said, he screwed up big time. He had an amazing opportunity to consolidate his position and to strengthen Congress; but being naive, he just said and did what the Old Indira Cootorie told him – the Bhagats, the Tytlers – and paid for it with his life. Still, no reason to believe his son can’t do better… but yes, that’s just a matter of opinion.

    3. I can’t believe you’re actually trying to justify what Modi and his goons did in Gujarat. Are you serious?? The next CM or PM might come to your doorstep, kill your entire family and argue it’s not his/her fault, it’s just a “product of the system” so please don’t mind. How would you like that? LOL Incredible.

    Sure, getting rid of Modi doesn’t change the system but I don’t see how making him more powerful that he already is will help!! Maybe one day Modi will have a role in National politics, and maybe he will turn out to be a good leader. My point is simply this: it MUST be drilled into his head (and he is a smart ass, so I think he can understand) that he cannot escape responsibility for the 2002 “murders” and that such behavior is ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY unacceptable.

    He can be the greatest politician or chief minister or whatever, but if he sticks to his stupid Hindu Fundamentalist mantra, he has no place in Gujarat, in Delhi, in India and on this planet. If he wants a bigger role in Indian politics, he must apologize for his mistakes and seek a fresh mandate, not based on a crazy muslim-hating hindutva wave but on the basis of the work he’s doing in Gujarat.

  12. Desh says

    3. When I say that Modi was the product of the system… I am asking a fundamental question – Who is NOT a “Modi”?

    Are we singling him out because a “Hindu” killed a “Muslim”?

    Because I don’t see you asking us to “drill” into the head of COngress that a 1984 is NOT acceptable! For even this very government had Tytler as a Union Minister until he was charged by the commission (which obviously went nowhere!).

    Nandigram happened. Recently. Dalits and Muslims were ALSO singled out there. Does anyone say that Budhhadeb and Communists SHOULD be forced out of National politics? or that we should DRILL into their heads that Nandigram is NOT acceptable?

    The answer is NO.

    Sir, I am asking a fundamental question here – when does a killing become “ACCEPTABLE” and when is it NOT acceptable?

    – When a atheistic politician kills a Minority (Sikh)?
    – When a Muslim kills a Hindu (Godhra) [which Teesta so unashamedly justified to BBC by saying “After all they were Kar Sevaks”]?
    – When a Hindu kills a Muslims (post Godhra riots)?
    – When a Communist kills a Muslim (Nandigram)?

    In WHOSE mind should we “drill” and why?

    It is my argument now that there is no such thing as communinalism or secularism ON THE GROUND. On the ground and in practical terms.. both are the same. ABSOLUTELY SAME. No difference. Any difference is in rhetoric! And I TOTALLY, ABSOLUTELY, UNEQUIVOCALLY reject rhetorical Secularism and Communalism.

    I am saying EVERYONE in the Indian politics is a “Modi”! When Dr. Singh accepted Tytler as his Union Minister… he was a “Modi”. When Prakash Karat tried to hide Nandigram massacres.. he was a “Modi”… When the press and we all accept Nandigram “grudgingly” but want a special treatment for Gujarat post Godhra.. we are “Modis”!

    Which Modi do we make an example of?

  13. Anonymous says

    ++++
    Apologies for the long post, I’ll refrain from responding any further. Let’s just agree to disagree, for now. And a sincere thanks for the stimulating discussion.
    ++++

    Nobody removed Tytler, nobody removed Budha, and nobody removed Modi – so how exactly is our “poor” Modi being specifically targeted and made example of? If the Congress projected Tytler as their next Prime Ministerial candidate, you would be shouting from the top of your roof saying THIS IS WRONG (quite rightly so, and I’ll join in)! Then how can you suggest Modi as the next PM? Maybe because he killed “fewer” innocent people?

    You say, Congress was wrong in inducting Tytler as a Union Minister (and I agree). But how can the BJP be deemed right for riding (and propagating) the anti-muslim wave and projecting Modi as a Hero? Oh wait, it’s not their fault, its the “system”.

    You say nothing ever happened to Tytler except that he was removed from the cabinet; may I ask if anything AT ALL happened to Modi? He is STILL the CM of Gujarat, more powerful than ever before.

    So, here’s the deal. Our law has been unable to punish the culprits – both Modi and Tytler. What should we do about it? How about we just accept it and instead of making sure that past, present and future culprits are punished, let’s set a glorious example of Gandhigiri by making one of the culprits our next PM. Way to go MunnaBhai…

    ——————————–

    Sir, I am asking a fundamental question here – when does a killing become “ACCEPTABLE” and when is it NOT acceptable?

    – When a atheistic politician kills a Minority (Sikh)?
    – When a Muslim kills a Hindu (Godhra) [which Teesta so unashamedly justified to BBC by saying “After all they were Kar Sevaks”]?
    – When a Hindu kills a Muslims (post Godhra riots)?
    – When a Communist kills a Muslim (Nandigram)?

    ——————————–

    Here’s MY answer: NEITHER is acceptable, all the above are equal culprits

    YOUR answer seems to be: all of the above are culprits EXCEPT Modi, who is our Hero and therefore should be made the next PM.

    Let’s turn India into a Hindu Fundamentalist nation, where putting a statue of Charlie Chaplin would be a sin; where celebrating Valentine’s Day would be a crime; where women will be beaten up for sitting in a bar; where artists would be thrown out of the country just because they belong to a neighboring country where (just like in most countries of the world) the Government and it’s policies DO NOT necessarily represent the feelings of the common man on the street…

    Perhaps we should also kick out all Nepalese people from India because some Maoists in Nepal asked Indian priests to leave. Obviously, all Italians must be disallowed too; we must also ban American tourists, workers, capital and products because the US had the audacity to deny VISA to the Great Mr. Modi. Moreover, they turned overnight from potential friends to grave enemies because while the BJP initiated the Indo-US Nuclear Deal; it got ratified when Congress was in power. And of course, to save the nation’s autonomy, BJP had no problems in ganging up with the Left to try and bring the government down.

    Maybe when all 83% Hindus in India will “unite” (as the Togadia’s and Thackeray’s keep claiming to dream of; what they actually mean is when all Hindus will stop thinking for themselves and just blindly follow whatever they say) they will elect a government which will ask a Muslim population greater than the population of Pakistan to either convert or move out. Of course, all Indian Christians would be “re-converted” back to Hinduism as well. Moral Police will be formalized and will have more powers than the present-day judiciary; the country will be run by a “Supreme Leader” (as in Iran).

    Way to go India! Seems like a bright future for India, oops sorry, “India” is a western term, let’s call it “Bharat”! Of course, it does seem a bit odd for a “religion” (sometimes argued to be just a “way of life” followed by people from one of the oldest human civilizations along the Indus) which claims to be “tolerant”; which boasts of diversity as a strength; which takes pride in the virtue of “sacrifice”; which claims a golden history where it NEVER invaded any other country and which even invaders fell in love with and became an inherent part of. But, that’s just detail, right?

    Oh wait, I know what you’ll say, our “tolerance” must not be misunderstood as our weakness, so let’s kill them all before they can utter a word.

    In reality, if a dead comedian’s statue can hurt the “mighty” Hindu sentiment – not because the statue is ugly or insulting but simply because the comedian was a Christian – I guess we should just forget about our “glorious” past and start worshiping our new Gods – Modi, Togadia, Thakeray, Muthalik et al.

    I wonder if a “young Vajpayee” would have accepted this. I wonder if the “Obama Mania” could have been run on similar grounds. Obama could carry a small Hanuman in his pocket on his campaign trail; wonder what the Shiv Sena, the Ram Sena or the VHP would say if Vajpayee or Advani started carrying a copy of the Quran or the Bible.

  14. Desh says

    Sir, I agree that its stimulating but we have to agree to disagree. But let me also put certain points here:

    1. JD Tytler was a mass murderer. This is a point that I am bringing out. Modi is the ONLY mass murderer worth opposing prima facie, is what is brought out by most. I am merely holding the mirror of the society to all those who ELECT to show Selective Morality in a Suo moto manner in any discussion. When Tytler killed, he was NOT the Prime Minister. He was a Minister in the Union Cabinet. Modi was the CM during Gujarat riots. If Modi had no right to be the CM again, then ditto for Tytler.

    2. Law and Murderers: If the prosecution is public debate is OBVIOUSLY, INHERENTLY, and CLEARLY biased and SELECTIVE in its Intent, Manner, and Ambition.. then I oppose such a blind and prejudiced pretense of law-abiding swagger. If we have to go forward and stop any more Modis from coming out, we have to stop being selective and prejudiced. We have to strike at the root of this problem – OUR OWN laziness of looking at the issue in its face!

    So, I am not saying throw out the laws of public debate but change them. Make them real. Let’s get rid of sham secularism by baring it and bring in something that is at least real. We have been fooling ourselves. And irrespective of when our Morality awakened, poor people have been killed in droves… in thousands! No one ever said a word! Even NOW, it is to create the right of CERTAIN people to kill the poor (silence on Nandigram) and bar others! That is NONSENSE!

    3. I favor Modi for his administrative capabilities – just like you do. But I am saying if Modi does turn out to be a Tytler or a Rajiv Gandhi.. I would not be bothered.. for nobbody has been bothered about the Rajiv Gandhis and Tytler ANYWAYS! We have not been inflicted enough hurt and pain that we stop ALL mass murderers! Our swagger and blindness will continue to prop some.. and others will take lessons. And if you closely look, Modi is a STUDENT of Rajiv Gandhi in that sense! If everyone of those who Morality has had an epiphany all of a sudden… had SEEN RG and Co. to be what they were…and did what they are doing to Modi.. then Modi would not have happened!

    But the sad thing is that even NOW.. only Modi is made a villain.. while Communists of Nandigram continue to brandish their Haloes and we all are blinded by them!

    4. I hate, oppose and thoroughly denounce the extreme right wing of the Hindu parties. What you said in second half of your reply is mainly out of your anger, Sir. Its what you think I would be. And that is fine. Personally, I don’t think most of the Hindus.. and certainly none of the Hindu party politicians even understand Hinduism or Vedanta in any case. You are welcome to read my thoughts.. provocative and politically incorrect as they are.. they are here.

  15. Anonymous says

    ++++
    Apologies for the long post, I’ll refrain from responding any further. Let’s just agree to disagree, for now. And a sincere thanks for the stimulating discussion.
    ++++

    Nobody removed Tytler, nobody removed Budha, and nobody removed Modi – so how exactly is our “poor” Modi being specifically targeted and made example of? If the Congress projected Tytler as their next Prime Ministerial candidate, you would be shouting from the top of your roof saying THIS IS WRONG (quite rightly so, and I’ll join in)! Then how can you suggest Modi as the next PM? Maybe because he killed “fewer” innocent people?

    You say, Congress was wrong in inducting Tytler as a Union Minister (and I agree). But how can the BJP be deemed right for riding (and propagating) the anti-muslim wave and projecting Modi as a Hero? Oh wait, it’s not their fault, its the “system”.

    You say nothing ever happened to Tytler except that he was removed from the cabinet; may I ask if anything AT ALL happened to Modi? He is STILL the CM of Gujarat, more powerful than ever before.

    So, here’s the deal. Our law has been unable to punish the culprits – both Modi and Tytler. What should we do about it? How about we just accept it and instead of making sure that past, present and future culprits are punished, let’s set a glorious example of Gandhigiri by making one of the culprits our next PM. Way to go MunnaBhai…

    ——————————–

    Sir, I am asking a fundamental question here – when does a killing become “ACCEPTABLE” and when is it NOT acceptable?

    – When a atheistic politician kills a Minority (Sikh)?
    – When a Muslim kills a Hindu (Godhra) [which Teesta so unashamedly justified to BBC by saying “After all they were Kar Sevaks”]?
    – When a Hindu kills a Muslims (post Godhra riots)?
    – When a Communist kills a Muslim (Nandigram)?

    ——————————–

    Here’s MY answer: NEITHER is acceptable, all the above are equal culprits

    YOUR answer seems to be: all of the above are culprits EXCEPT Modi, who is our Hero and therefore should be made the next PM.

    Let’s turn India into a Hindu Fundamentalist nation, where putting a statue of Charlie Chaplin would be a sin; where celebrating Valentine’s Day would be a crime; where women will be beaten up for sitting in a bar; where artists would be thrown out of the country just because they belong to a neighboring country where (just like in most countries of the world) the Government and it’s policies DO NOT necessarily represent the feelings of the common man on the street…

    Perhaps we should also kick out all Nepalese people from India because some Maoists in Nepal asked Indian priests to leave. Obviously, all Italians must be disallowed too; we must also ban American tourists, workers, capital and products because the US had the audacity to deny VISA to the Great Mr. Modi. Moreover, they turned overnight from potential friends to grave enemies because while the BJP initiated the Indo-US Nuclear Deal; it got ratified when Congress was in power. And of course, to save the nation’s autonomy, BJP had no problems in ganging up with the Left to try and bring the government down.

    Maybe when all 83% Hindus in India will “unite” (as the Togadia’s and Thackeray’s keep claiming to dream of; what they actually mean is when all Hindus will stop thinking for themselves and just blindly follow whatever they say) they will elect a government which will ask a Muslim population greater than the population of Pakistan to either convert or move out. Of course, all Indian Christians would be “re-converted” back to Hinduism as well. Moral Police will be formalized and will have more powers than the present-day judiciary; the country will be run by a “Supreme Leader” (as in Iran).

    Way to go India! Seems like a bright future for India, oops sorry, “India” is a western term, let’s call it “Bharat”! Of course, it does seem a bit odd for a “religion” (sometimes argued to be just a “way of life” followed by people from one of the oldest human civilizations along the Indus) which claims to be “tolerant”; which boasts of diversity as a strength; which takes pride in the virtue of “sacrifice”; which claims a golden history where it NEVER invaded any other country and which even invaders fell in love with and became an inherent part of. But, that’s just detail, right?

    Oh wait, I know what you’ll say, our “tolerance” must not be misunderstood as our weakness, so let’s kill them all before they can utter a word.

    In reality, if a dead comedian’s statue can hurt the “mighty” Hindu sentiment – not because the statue is ugly or insulting but simply because the comedian was a Christian – I guess we should just forget about our “glorious” past and start worshiping our new Gods – Modi, Togadia, Thakeray, Muthalik et al.

    I wonder if a “young Vajpayee” would have accepted this. I wonder if the “Obama Mania” could have been run on similar grounds. Obama could carry a small Hanuman in his pocket on his campaign trail; wonder what the Shiv Sena, the Ram Sena or the VHP would say if Vajpayee or Advani started carrying a copy of the Quran or the Bible.

  16. Desh says

    Sir, I agree that its stimulating but we have to agree to disagree. But let me also put certain points here:

    1. JD Tytler was a mass murderer. This is a point that I am bringing out. Modi is the ONLY mass murderer worth opposing prima facie, is what is brought out by most. I am merely holding the mirror of the society to all those who ELECT to show Selective Morality in a Suo moto manner in any discussion. When Tytler killed, he was NOT the Prime Minister. He was a Minister in the Union Cabinet. Modi was the CM during Gujarat riots. If Modi had no right to be the CM again, then ditto for Tytler.

    2. Law and Murderers: If the prosecution is public debate is OBVIOUSLY, INHERENTLY, and CLEARLY biased and SELECTIVE in its Intent, Manner, and Ambition.. then I oppose such a blind and prejudiced pretense of law-abiding swagger. If we have to go forward and stop any more Modis from coming out, we have to stop being selective and prejudiced. We have to strike at the root of this problem – OUR OWN laziness of looking at the issue in its face!

    So, I am not saying throw out the laws of public debate but change them. Make them real. Let’s get rid of sham secularism by baring it and bring in something that is at least real. We have been fooling ourselves. And irrespective of when our Morality awakened, poor people have been killed in droves… in thousands! No one ever said a word! Even NOW, it is to create the right of CERTAIN people to kill the poor (silence on Nandigram) and bar others! That is NONSENSE!

    3. I favor Modi for his administrative capabilities – just like you do. But I am saying if Modi does turn out to be a Tytler or a Rajiv Gandhi.. I would not be bothered.. for nobbody has been bothered about the Rajiv Gandhis and Tytler ANYWAYS! We have not been inflicted enough hurt and pain that we stop ALL mass murderers! Our swagger and blindness will continue to prop some.. and others will take lessons. And if you closely look, Modi is a STUDENT of Rajiv Gandhi in that sense! If everyone of those who Morality has had an epiphany all of a sudden… had SEEN RG and Co. to be what they were…and did what they are doing to Modi.. then Modi would not have happened!

    But the sad thing is that even NOW.. only Modi is made a villain.. while Communists of Nandigram continue to brandish their Haloes and we all are blinded by them!

    4. I hate, oppose and thoroughly denounce the extreme right wing of the Hindu parties. What you said in second half of your reply is mainly out of your anger, Sir. Its what you think I would be. And that is fine. Personally, I don’t think most of the Hindus.. and certainly none of the Hindu party politicians even understand Hinduism or Vedanta in any case. You are welcome to read my thoughts.. provocative and politically incorrect as they are.. they are here.

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