An Indian Civilizational Perspective

Krishna and Mahabharat: Historical reality

Dr Manish Pandit, a nuclear medicine physician from UK is making a movie on Krishna as a historic figure. Pandit has based his movie on dates and timelines coming out of scientific based research by credible evidence based on Archeology, Astronomy and Linguistics, apart from Oral evidence from Indian tradition.

Mahabharat War started on November 22, 3067 BC. This comes out of astronomical evidence. And the astronomical juxtapositions are not arbitrary or those that could happen in any decade or such… but some of them have not happened since. They are THAT rare a phenomenon.

Saturn at Rohini and Mars at Jyestha with two eclipses – a Lunar eclipse at Kartik and Solar eclipse at Jyesth. (these are from Udyoga and Bhisma Parvan).

(1)Amavasya occurs in Jyestha in 19 years
(2) (1) PLUS Solar Eclipse in Jyesth occurs in 340 years.
(3) (2) PLUS Saturn at Rohini occurs ONCE in 7000 years.

So, that constellation in astronomy has NOT occured since Mahabharat. The date – exact one – when that would have happened is Nov 22, 3067 BC.

Update: i found an article which is very well written, which I am afraid may go away from that site. I have reproduced it at the bottom.

Not only that, but the latter events like destructiion of Dwarka (based on the astronomical events mentioned around that) occur at EXACTLY as the text says – 36 years later.

Pandit has based his research on work of Dr Narhari Achar (a professor of physics at the University of Memphis, Tennessee, in the US). According to Achar, Krishna was born in 3112 BC.

However, another person has used dates and astronomical events to zero in on the dates of that time, Arun K Bansal. According to him, Krishna was born on July 21, 3228 BC and died at 2 pm on February 18, 3102 BC. That is when Kali Yug is supposed to have started and Dwapar Yug came to an end.

So, Bansal’s dates are a few decades prior to Achar’s dates.

However, there are more people who side with Dr. Achar (refer to the article reproduced below).

Here are a few dates that can be identified with respect to the dates by Dr. Achar:

  • Lord Krishna, on His final peace mission, set out for Hastinapur on 26th September, 3067 B.C. when the moon was at the asterism Revati.
  • Lord Krishna arrived Hastinapur on 28th September, 3067 B.C., when the moon was at the asterism Bharani.
  • The full moon and lunar eclipse at Krittika occurred on 29th September, 3067 B.C.
  • The solar eclipse at Jyestha occurred on 14th October, 3067 B.C.
  • Lord Balarama set out for pilgrimage on 1st November, 3067 B.C.
  • The War began on 22nd November, 3067 B.C.
  • Lord Balarama concluded His pilgrimage on 12th December, 3067 B.C.
  • The winter solstice occurred on 13th January, 3066 B.C.
  • Bhishma died on 17th January, 3066 B.C.
  • The comet Mahaghora appeared at the asterism Pushya in October, 3066 B.C.

Mahabharat dates and Historical Events

Interestingly, the decades when Dwapar Yug is supposed to have ended and Kali Yug supposed to have started as per these dates.. were also the years of some MAJOR climatic shift on earth – due most probably to major shifts in Solar Activity! Some of the MAJOR things that happened:

  • Sahara region changed from a habitable land to a barren desert!
  • Glaciers Expanded covering plants.
  • Atmospheric temperatures fell drastically.

This was also the time, when Harrapan Civilization or Sindhu-Saraswati Civilization is supposed to have began.

Some people believe that Mahabharat was a Nuclear War. Why? Because of some explanations that defy contemporary knowledge of weapons that people of THAT time could conceivably have created. Weapons with such impact could not have been conjured up just out of nowhere.. REPEATEDLY.. in various parts of the text. See below for one such description of its effects. It is not surprising that even in the modern world, Robert Oppenheimer, Nuclear Scientist jumped up after seeing the Atomic blast and cited a similar verse from Gita (part of Mahabharat).

Now, if you see the extreme climactic changes – creation of desert out of habitable land in Sahara and drastic fall in atmospheric temperature as if Solar Activity had changed – it may not be entirely unlikely, that those climatic shifts may have mimicked a Nuclear Winter.

Mahabharat is a fantastic epic and one which would have required MORE than just imagination to write. No writer has ever written something so completely OUT of whack with his times, mores and thinking… as a Mahabharat within the context of History as taught in our school texts suggests. It seems so fantastic that even the idea seems absurd!

That alone – the imagination of a writer 5000 years ago to write something that (if linera historical progress is taken to be true) ONLY people of today could have seen/heard/experienced/imagined! Its not just wishful imagination – as parting of seas et al – but very exact descriptions of things that happen today and could happen tomorrow.

The philosophy of Gita is hitherto unparalleled in the spiritual realm. No Saint, prophet, Master, or mystic has covered so many topologies – Knowledge, Devotion, Action, – with so much mastery.

What I am trying to say is that you cannot get something out of nowhere. You can only conjure up stuff that is there in your immediate consciousness. Fantasies and miracles in knowledge dont make sense to me!

An incandescent column of smoke and flame,
as bright as ten thousand suns,
rose with all its splendour.

It was an unknown weapon,
an iron thunderbolt,
a gigantic messenger of death,
which reduced to ashes
the entire race of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas.

The corpses were so burned
as to be unrecognizable.

Hair and nails fell out;
Pottery broke without apparent cause,
and the birds turned white.

…After a few hours
all foodstuffs were infected…
…to escape from this fire
the soldiers threw themselves in streams
to wash themselves and their equipment.”

Reference Links:

1. ‘Lord Krishna existed. School texts are wrong’
2. Krishna (b. July 21, 3228 BC)
3. 33rd century BC
4. Pre-historic Nuclear War and ancient Flying Aircraft uncovered

Historicity of Mahabharat

In January 2001, Indian History Congress was holding its Annual Conference at the Alipur Campus of the University of Calcutta and at the concluding session of the said Conference the Nobel Laureate economist Dr. Amartya Sen, while addressing the delegates, said that Ramayana and Mahabharata do not have any historical value. These two epics are simply mythology and nothing but poets’ fancy. He also said that neither Rama nor Krishna was a historical personality and both of them were simply mythical.

Gandhiji wrote two commentaries on Shrimadbhagavadgita, Anasaktiyoga and Gitabodha, and in the introduction of the former work, he wrote, “Generally Mahabharata is taken to be a historical work. But in my opinion, it is not so. I cannot say that Ramayana and Mahabharata are historical works. They are simply religious works. If you are still inclined to treat them as historical works, then I should say that they are nothing but the history of the Self (Atma). They do not contain what happened thousands of years ago. On the contrary, they are the reflections of what is happening today in every soul”. About Lord Krishna, he wrote, ”Krishna of Gita is the embodiment of pure and divine knowledge, but without having any physical existence. By this the Avatar Krishna is not denied at all, but only it is said that He is mythical”.

It is not difficult to understand that all such utterances of Sen, Gandhi and many other like minded Indians derive inspiration from the Western interpretation of Indian history. Most of the Western scholars firmly believe that our ancestors grossly neglected writing history and what we claim to be our history is nothing but mythology. So M. Winternitz in his History of Indian Literature writes, “History is one weak spot in Indian literature. It is, in fact, non-existent. The total lack of historical sense is so characteristic that the whole course of Sanskrit literature is darkened by the defect”. The renowned German scholar Max Muller, in his History of Ancient Sanskrit Literature, writes, “No wonder that a nation like India cared so little for history”. “With regard to history, the Hindus have done really nothing but romances from which some truth may occasionally be extracted”, says another Western scholar Major Wilford. These scholars refuse to accept Ramayana, Mahabharata and the Puranas as historical works as there are no mention of year and dates of the events described therein.

But people of this country firmly believe that Ramayana, Mahabharata and the Puranas are their history and not simply epics or poets’ fancy. So Dr. S. Kalyanaraman, the director of the Chennai based Saraswati River Research Centre, says that the historicity of the events described in Ramayana and Mahabharata is validated by two evidences: one is based on tradition and the other is based on jyotisha, or planetary configurations and other celestial events narrated along with mundane events described in those epics, which may be called sky epigraphs.

So far tradition is concerned, people of this nation believe that Lord Rama was born on the day of Ramanavami and Lord Krishna was born on the day of Janmastami and so on. In fact, there is a long list of such traditional beliefs such as: Bhishma died on the Bhishmastami day, on the day of Vijaya Dashami, Lord Rama celebrated the day, with His army, as the day of victory after killing Ravana and defeating his army just on the previous day, on the day of Deepavali, Lord Rama returned to Ayodhya after 14 years of exile and the people of Ayodhya celebrated the day and decorated their houses by lighting lamps and the tradition is still being continued; the War of Kurukshetra began on the day of Gita Jayanti and so on and so forth.

It is really strange that the people of Western Garhwal, now in the state of Uttaranchal, observe every year the Duryodhana Festival. There also exists a temple dedicated to Duryodhana where people offer their puja and many believe that the city of Varanavat, where Duryodhana tried to burn the Pandavas alive, was situated in that locality. It is also really striking that people of this country offer water in memory of Bhishma during shraddha ceremony. The point to be highlighted here is that, had all these been poets’ fancy and mythical, the traditions could not have been continued for such a long time.

The aspect of celestial epigraph, or planetary positions described in these epics, particularly in Mahabharata, undoubtedly shows that the said epics do mention the dates of events described therein, which the Western scholars failed miserably to understand. In Mahabharata alone there are 150 instances where worldly events are mentioned along with the planetary positions in the sky. And, in addition to that, other astronomical events such as occurrence of an eclipse, or appearance of a comet, or rare events like shower of meteorites have been mentioned. A few of such examples may be mentioned below

The Udyoga Parva of Mahabharata narrates that, just before the War, Lord Krishna, in His final peace mission, went to Hastinapur in the month of Kartika. He set out on the day when moon was at the asterism Revati. On His way to Hastinapur, Krishna took rest for a day at a place called Brikasthala, and on that day the moon was at the asterism Bharani. The day on which Duryodhana turned down each and every effort of Lord Krishna to make peace and made the war inevitable, the moon was resting at the asterism Pushya. And the Lord left Hastinapura with Karna, on the day when the moon was yet to reach the asterism Uttara Phalguni. As mentioned above, Karna accompanied Him to some distance to see Him off and he then described to the Lord the positions of planets in the sky and expressed his apprehension that such a planetary configuration stood for very bad omen: such as large scale loss of life and drenching of blood. Vyasadeva narrated all these planetary positions in as many as sixteen verses as if someone was describing it after visualizing them in the sky. It is also well known that during the War, Lord Balarama went on a pilgrimage to holy places along the banks of the River Saraswati and Mahabharata describes the position of the moon during the entire course of pilgrimage. For example, He set out on the day when the moon was at the asterism Pushya and returned on the day when the moon was at the asterism Shravana.

The Mahabharata also mentions the occurrence of a solar eclipse at the asterism Jyestha and a lunar eclipse at the asterism Krittika, just before the beginning of the War. It also mentions the appearance of a comet at the asterism Pushya, on the 8th day of the bright half of the month of Magha, when Bhishma died. On that day the moon was at the asterism Rohini and it was the day of Winter Solstice. The day on which Ghatotkacha, son of Bhima, died, the moon appeared at the horizon at 2.00 a.m. The epic also mentions the occurrence of a very rare astronomical event that took place prior to the War: three eclipses, two lunar and a solar, within a lunar month of 27 days.

There is also another continuing tradition in this country that says that the beginning of the present Kali Yuga, Kurukshetra War, death of Lord Krishna and coronation of Emperor Yudhishthira were contemporary events. Famous astronomer Aryabhatta in his celebrated work Aryabhatiyam had accepted the said tradition and used the word “Bharatapurvam” in the said work very often and scholars agree that he used the word to refer to such events that occurred before the Mahabharata War. In 1991, Dr. D. Abhayankar and Dr. Ballabh of the Osmania University calculated that the present Kali Yuga began on 7th February, 3104 B.C. But it is now well accepted by the both Eastern and the Western scholars that the present Kali Yuga began on the midnight of 17th and 18th February, 3102 B.C. And hence it can roughly be said that the Mahabharata War took place nearly 5000 years ago from now.

Today, man has created a machine called computer which, though most idiotic, can do mathematical calculations at an incredible speed. According to a popular ad of a computer company, the calculations which Johannes Kepler took ten years to complete, can be done today within minutes, using a computer. It has therefore been possible for the scientists, with the help of this fantastic machine, to determine the dates of ancient events with unthinkable accuracy, using the planetary configurations given in the Mahabharata , as inputs. They have developed so many software for this purpose and to name a few are: (1) Planetarium, (2) Ecliptic, (3) Lode star and the(4) Panchang Software.

In 2003, a two day seminar was held on 5th and 6th January, in Bangalore, on “The Date of Mahabharata War: Based on Astronomical Data Using Planetarium Software”, and a few of the eminent researchers who submitted papers were (1) Dr. S. Balakrishna of NASA, USA; (2) Dr. B. N. Narahari Achar, Department of Physics, Memphis University, USA; (3) Dr. R. N. Iyengar, Department of Civil Engineering, IISc, Bangalore; (4) Dr. S. Kalyanaraman, Saraswati River Research Centre, Chennai and so on. These scientists agree that there does not exist any contradiction between any two descriptions of planetary configurations given in the Mahabharata.

Dr. S. Balakrishna has studied the eclipses, both solar and lunar, described in the Mahabharata and tried to find out the dates of those eclipses using the Lode Star Software. Generally 240 solar and 150 lunar eclipses occur in a century and during the period from 3300 B.C. to 700 B.C. nearly 6000 solar and 4000 lunar eclipses took place, though not all of them were visible from India, or to be more precise, fromKurukshetra. Out of them, 672 were eclipse pairs, or both solar and lunar eclipses within a lunar month. Dr. Balakrishna studied the eclipses those have been mentioned in the text of Mahabharata. In fact, there are mentions of solar eclipses at 8 places in Mahabharata, out of which three of them are very important. Firstly, the solar eclipse that is mentioned in the Sabha Parva. The second solar eclipse which is mentioned in the Udyoga Parva to which Karna tried to draw the attention of Lord Krishna when He was returning from Hastinapur. The third important solar eclipse has been mentioned in the Shalya Parva, that occurred along with two lunar eclipses within a month. Many believe that there was a total solar eclipse occurred on the 13th day of the War, which has been allegorically mentioned as covering the sun by Lord Krishna with is HHis Sudarshan Chakra.

The epic Mahabharata has so many other aspects which common people do not know. Firstly, the epic as we see it today containing 100,000 verses was not the creation of Vedavyasa. He composed what was then known as the Jai, containing only 8,800 verses. Later on Rishi Vaishampayana enlarged it to contain 24,000 verses which was then known as the Bharata. Finally Sauti, the son of the suta (the chariot driver) Lomaharshana, gave it present form as we see now, containing 100,000 verses.

It has been mentioned earlier that just prior to the Mahabharata War, a very rare event of three eclipses occurring within a lunar month took place: a lunar eclipse followed by a solar one and then another lunar eclipse. According to the text of Mahabharata, the solar eclipse occurred just 13 days after the first lunar eclipse. Dr. S. Balakrishna of NASA, USA, has searched all eclipse pairs, a lunar eclipse followed by a solar eclipse after 13 days, that took place from 3300 B.C. to 700 B.C., using the Lodestar pro-software. He found that nearly 672 eclipse pairs have occurred within the said period, out of which 27 pairs have been found to have less than 14 days time gap. And according to Dr. Balakrishna, the eclipse pair of 2559 is the best match with the description given in the text of Mahabharata. But according to Dr. Kalyanaraman, the eclipses occurred in 3067 B.C.- the lunar eclipse on 29th September at the asterism Krittika and the solar eclipse on 14th October at the asterism Jyestha.

Researcher Dr. P. V. Holay examined 6 planetary configurations given in the Mahabharata and concluded that the War began on 13th November, 3143 B.C. But Dr. K. S. Raghavan and his coworker Dr. G. S. Sampath Iyengar, using the Planetarium software came to the conclusion that the Kurukshetra War began on 22nd day of November, 3067 B.C. (according to the present Gregorian calendar). Professor Dr. Narahari Achar of the University of Memphis, USA, also arrived at the same conclusion using the said Planetarium software. Dr. S. Kalyanaraman of the Saraswati River Research Centre, Chennai, found the estimates of Dr. K. S. Raghavan and Dr. Narahari Achar correct and, on that basis, calculated the dates of some other important events of Mahabharata. For example: Lord Krishna, on His final peace mission, set out for Hastinapur on 26th September, 3067 B.C. when the moon was at the asterism Revati. Lord Krishna arrived Hastinapur on 28th September, 3067 B.C., when the moon was at the asterism Bharani. The full moon and lunar eclipse at Krittika occurred on 29th September, 3067 B.C.

The solar eclipse at Jyestha occurred on 14th October, 3067 B.C.

Lord Balarama set out for pilgrimage on 1st November, 3067 B.C.

The War began on 22nd November, 3067 B.C.

Lord Balarama concluded His pilgrimage on 12th December, 3067 B.C.

The winter solstice occurred on 13th January, 3066 B.C.

Bhishma died on 17th January, 3066 B.C.

The comet Mahaghora appeared at the asterism Pushya in October, 3066 B.C.

Finally, it should be mentioned that the said seminar officially accepted that the Mahabharata War began, as mentioned above, on 22nd November, 3067 B.C. So it appears that the Mahabharata War took place, not in Dwapara Yuga but, in the 35th year of the present Kali Yuga. It is not unlikely because according to the text of Mahabharata, the War took place at the juncture of Dwapara and Kali Yuga.

Last year, (2005 A.D.), astrologer Arun Kumar Bansal, using computer software, calculated date of birth of Lord Krishna and it was 21st July, 3228 B.C. So it appears that during the Mahabharata War, age of Lord Krishna was 161 years. At the first sight, it may appear to be absurd. But it should be mentioned here that, according to Hindu scriptures, the normal life span of human beings is 400 years in Krita (or Satya), 300 years in Treta, 200 years in Dwapara and 100 years in Kali Yuga. In fact, during the Kurukshetra War, most of the military top brass of both Kauravas and Pandavas were more than 100 years old.

To conclude, it should be mentioned here that the discovery of the ruins of the city of Dwaraka by the renowned archaeologist Dr. S. R. Rao, under the Arabian Sea, provides another strong evidence that Lord Krishna and the story of Mahabharata were a reality and not simply poet’s fancy.

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22 Comments
  1. suneel dutt says

    the things written in indian scriptures are eternal truths everybody will have to admit it . there is no need of socalled scientific proofs because the science is nothing but “putting the things we know in a systematic way”

  2. suneel dutt says

    the things written in indian scriptures are eternal truths everybody will have to admit it . there is no need of socalled scientific proofs because the science is nothing but “putting the things we know in a systematic way”

  3. Rajiv Sethi says

    I want to commend the author on writing a very well researched article on the last chapter of our glorious ancient history. The present system of Yuga calculation is highly erroneous and has absolutely no relationship to what Manu wrote in Manusmriti. While laying down the conditions for Yuga calculations he writes,”Four thousand years is said to be the Krita Yuga (Satya Yuga). Its morning has as many hundreds, and its evening is of the same length. (400+4000+400 = 4800). In the other three ages, with their morning and evening twilights, the thousands and hundreds decrease by one. (i.e. 300+3000+300 = 3600 and so on…). That fourfold cycle comprising twelve thousand years is called an Age of the gods. The sum of a thousand divine ages constitutes one day of Brahma, and of the same length is its night.
    The period of Satya Yuga proper is four thousand years in duration. Four hundred years before and after the Satya Yuga are its Sandhis or junctions with preceeding and succeeding Treta Yuga where the gradual changes in the nature of the Yuga take place. Thus forty eight hundred years in all is the total age of the Satya Yuga. Manu has laid down that in the calculation of the periods of the other Yugas, numeral one should be substracted from the number of both thousands and hundreds which indicate the periods of the previous Yugas and Sandhis. From this rule the age of Treta Yuaga comes out to be thirty six hundred years. Three thousand as the length of the Yuga and three hundred years before and after as its Sandhis; a total of thirty six hundred years.
    Thus two thousand years is the length of the Dwapar Yuga with two hundred years before and after as its Sandhis. A total of twenty four hundred years. Lastly the duration of the Kali Yuga computes to be one thousand years with the junctions or sandhis lasting one hundred years. This makes the total age of Kali Yuga to be twelve hundred years.
    Seen in the backdrop of this the dates given in the article come out to be surprisingly accurate.
    Kudos dear writer!
    Rajiv Sethi

  4. Rajiv Sethi says

    I want to commend the author on writing a very well researched article on the last chapter of our glorious ancient history. The present system of Yuga calculation is highly erroneous and has absolutely no relationship to what Manu wrote in Manusmriti. While laying down the conditions for Yuga calculations he writes,”Four thousand years is said to be the Krita Yuga (Satya Yuga). Its morning has as many hundreds, and its evening is of the same length. (400+4000+400 = 4800). In the other three ages, with their morning and evening twilights, the thousands and hundreds decrease by one. (i.e. 300+3000+300 = 3600 and so on…). That fourfold cycle comprising twelve thousand years is called an Age of the gods. The sum of a thousand divine ages constitutes one day of Brahma, and of the same length is its night.
    The period of Satya Yuga proper is four thousand years in duration. Four hundred years before and after the Satya Yuga are its Sandhis or junctions with preceeding and succeeding Treta Yuga where the gradual changes in the nature of the Yuga take place. Thus forty eight hundred years in all is the total age of the Satya Yuga. Manu has laid down that in the calculation of the periods of the other Yugas, numeral one should be substracted from the number of both thousands and hundreds which indicate the periods of the previous Yugas and Sandhis. From this rule the age of Treta Yuaga comes out to be thirty six hundred years. Three thousand as the length of the Yuga and three hundred years before and after as its Sandhis; a total of thirty six hundred years.
    Thus two thousand years is the length of the Dwapar Yuga with two hundred years before and after as its Sandhis. A total of twenty four hundred years. Lastly the duration of the Kali Yuga computes to be one thousand years with the junctions or sandhis lasting one hundred years. This makes the total age of Kali Yuga to be twelve hundred years.
    Seen in the backdrop of this the dates given in the article come out to be surprisingly accurate.
    Kudos dear writer!
    Rajiv Sethi

  5. Anonymous says

    Simply because a large number of people, mostly Indians, believe Ramayana and Mahabharata to be historical truths does not mean they do not need to go through the scrutiny of science. A large number of people also believed that the earth is flat… so the “number” counts for zilch.

    Till the time these “hypotheses” pass the scrutiny of science, their value is nothing. Just because one Suneel Dutt agrees with them means nothing…so stop being an ignorant moron and if you really believe in something, invest in it’s research and help the entire world realize, OBJECTIVELY – without having to bow to a mindless faith – that these events are indeed historical facts.

    I respect the work people like Dr. Achar are doing but idiots like Suneel Dutt spoil their hard work and reputation by acting like a psychopath.

  6. Anonymous says

    Simply because a large number of people, mostly Indians, believe Ramayana and Mahabharata to be historical truths does not mean they do not need to go through the scrutiny of science. A large number of people also believed that the earth is flat… so the “number” counts for zilch.

    Till the time these “hypotheses” pass the scrutiny of science, their value is nothing. Just because one Suneel Dutt agrees with them means nothing…so stop being an ignorant moron and if you really believe in something, invest in it’s research and help the entire world realize, OBJECTIVELY – without having to bow to a mindless faith – that these events are indeed historical facts.

    I respect the work people like Dr. Achar are doing but idiots like Suneel Dutt spoil their hard work and reputation by acting like a psychopath.

  7. Anonymous says

    Simply because a large number of people, mostly Indians, believe Ramayana and Mahabharata to be historical truths does not mean they do not need to go through the scrutiny of science. A large number of people also believed that the earth is flat… so the “number” counts for zilch.

    Till the time these “hypotheses” pass the scrutiny of science, their value is nothing. Just because one Suneel Dutt agrees with them means nothing…so stop being an ignorant moron and if you really believe in something, invest in it’s research and help the entire world realize, OBJECTIVELY – without having to bow to a mindless faith – that these events are indeed historical facts.

    I respect the work people like Dr. Achar are doing but idiots like Suneel Dutt spoil their hard work and reputation by acting like a psychopath.

  8. Girish says

    If Kaliyuga comes to 1200 years, it doesn’t make sense, because its already 5000 years since Dwapara yuga ended. May be you mean 12000 or 120,000 years and not 1200. can you clarify?

  9. Girish says

    If Kaliyuga comes to 1200 years, it doesn’t make sense, because its already 5000 years since Dwapara yuga ended. May be you mean 12000 or 120,000 years and not 1200. can you clarify?

  10. Girish says

    Why do you keep saying Lord Krishna died. Do you think a God can die? He just simply vanished at the end of the yuga once the work He came to complete was over at the end of the yuga.
    Lord Krishna is a sampurna avatar of Maha Vishnu.

  11. Girish says

    Why do you keep saying Lord Krishna died. Do you think a God can die? He just simply vanished at the end of the yuga once the work He came to complete was over at the end of the yuga.
    Lord Krishna is a sampurna avatar of Maha Vishnu.

  12. Abhipar says

    Sir, excellent work..

  13. Abhipar says

    Sir, excellent work..

  14. Desh says

    Girish – that is a good point. MY take is that even Avatars, when in Human form are subject to human processes. As far as consciousness is concerned there is no difference between the two – human and avatar. The difference is in levels of realization. Saints, even the enlightened, rarely ever reach the level of realization of an avatar.

  15. Desh says

    Girish – that is a good point. MY take is that even Avatars, when in Human form are subject to human processes. As far as consciousness is concerned there is no difference between the two – human and avatar. The difference is in levels of realization. Saints, even the enlightened, rarely ever reach the level of realization of an avatar.

  16. El Dorado says

    Brilliant work sir! I have just one query…corroborative evidence! As you have done so much research on the subject you would be aware that the documented manuscript in sanskrit and prakrit is the only available as reference to this epic. Rest are either interpretations or adaptations… which too have been corrupted by the bias of the interpreting scholar. Anyway, how does one prove the veracity of a claim? Is it the cross referred astronomical dates…which plausibly could be retro-referred at the time of the original documentation.Or is it mention of the “mysteriously disappearing” anthropological evidence. I am sure that you would know that even meteor strikes too cause frightfully similar circumstances that may resemble Nuclear explosions.

    Having said that, I think the greatest gift of our ancestors by writing this epic is the timeless instigation of our souls to search it’s true meaning. Probably that is why we have such great belief in it.
    Maybe we don’t need to rationalize the writing in a pseudo scientific process to believe that the description of a civilization 3000-5000 years ago still holds relevance in our lives today…that we can identify with the described characters, situations and technologies with our modern selves. Maybe Krsna was a historical figure or a figment of a old mans imagination…no one can be sure. But what one can be sure of is what he has probably said in Shrimad Bhagvad Gita. For me I don’t have to bow my head in front of a historical figure to acknowledge the profundity of the words credited to him.

    So I don’t know whether I would “believe” Krsna to have lived of 126 years to bolster my faith or assert to the rest of the world that I belong to a superior lineage…or That a legendary character ran away from this part of the world to construct and form one of the greatest civilizations…by the Mayan civilization or any other mesoamerican civilizations use hieroglyphs that are closer Egyptians and not the one found in the Indus Valley. The Logosyllabic form is unique to the South American form. But I am sure that you already knew that.
    But again having said that we are all prisoners of our devices. During my own research I came across this website that refers to Asur Maya. http://vedicinsight.blogspot.c
    Now you decide…but please make sure to check the authenticity with the referred verses mentioned.

    A skeptical Believer!

  17. El Dorado says

    Brilliant work sir! I have just one query…corroborative evidence! As you have done so much research on the subject you would be aware that the documented manuscript in sanskrit and prakrit is the only available as reference to this epic. Rest are either interpretations or adaptations… which too have been corrupted by the bias of the interpreting scholar. Anyway, how does one prove the veracity of a claim? Is it the cross referred astronomical dates…which plausibly could be retro-referred at the time of the original documentation.Or is it mention of the “mysteriously disappearing” anthropological evidence. I am sure that you would know that even meteor strikes too cause frightfully similar circumstances that may resemble Nuclear explosions.

    Having said that, I think the greatest gift of our ancestors by writing this epic is the timeless instigation of our souls to search it’s true meaning. Probably that is why we have such great belief in it.
    Maybe we don’t need to rationalize the writing in a pseudo scientific process to believe that the description of a civilization 3000-5000 years ago still holds relevance in our lives today…that we can identify with the described characters, situations and technologies with our modern selves. Maybe Krsna was a historical figure or a figment of a old mans imagination…no one can be sure. But what one can be sure of is what he has probably said in Shrimad Bhagvad Gita. For me I don’t have to bow my head in front of a historical figure to acknowledge the profundity of the words credited to him.

    So I don’t know whether I would “believe” Krsna to have lived of 126 years to bolster my faith or assert to the rest of the world that I belong to a superior lineage…or That a legendary character ran away from this part of the world to construct and form one of the greatest civilizations…by the Mayan civilization or any other mesoamerican civilizations use hieroglyphs that are closer Egyptians and not the one found in the Indus Valley. The Logosyllabic form is unique to the South American form. But I am sure that you already knew that.
    But again having said that we are all prisoners of our devices. During my own research I came across this website that refers to Asur Maya. http://vedicinsight.blogspot.com/2009/03/mayasura.html
    Now you decide…but please make sure to check the authenticity with the referred verses mentioned.

    A skeptical Believer!

  18. Desh says

    Dear El Dorado – I agree with most of your writing. Given the profundity of the message, the person is not important.. moreover for one who claimed to be there forever. However, one does tend to get sick and tired of the attempts by the West to somehow paint our writings as “Mythical”. It is strange that even to our own “Historians”, BabarNama instantly and without any discussion becomes a historical record, while Guru Granth Sahib is religious text.. or Ramayana a mythical epic. It is to set the level playing field that such research must be done.

    As for corroborative evidence, I believe that archeology in India has rarely been done properly and has been mired in politics… looking at alternative evidence could be an interesting way to arrive at the dates as well. Such approaches are common in forensic science. Until the exercise is “scientific” and repeatable, one could profitably use the method.

  19. Desh says

    Thanks, Abhipar!

  20. Desh says

    Dear El Dorado – I agree with most of your writing. Given the profundity of the message, the person is not important.. moreover for one who claimed to be there forever. However, one does tend to get sick and tired of the attempts by the West to somehow paint our writings as “Mythical”. It is strange that even to our own “Historians”, BabarNama instantly and without any discussion becomes a historical record, while Guru Granth Sahib is religious text.. or Ramayana a mythical epic. It is to set the level playing field that such research must be done.

    As for corroborative evidence, I believe that archeology in India has rarely been done properly and has been mired in politics… looking at alternative evidence could be an interesting way to arrive at the dates as well. Such approaches are common in forensic science. Until the exercise is “scientific” and repeatable, one could profitably use the method.

  21. Desh says

    Thanks, Abhipar!

  22. RK says

    It is not surprising that what a hardcore Communist like Amartya Sen says about our epics. As a person who does not know much outside his area of study , he should have kept his mouth shut. RK Nair

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